Sox Gamers/Postmortems

Wrapping It Up: Sox-Yanks Gamer XVIII

Now this is the kind of series we expect between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Yesterday’s blowout was somewhat atypical in its one-sidedness, even if it did feature a retaliatory HBP and warning of the benches, but Friday was vintage drama. The rough equivalent of that April 20 game when Coco Crisp’s game-tying triple off of Mariano Rivera highlighted a 5-run eighth inning, a game Boston ended up winning 7-6 en route to a series sweep at Fenway Park.

So now we go into Game 18, the rivalry’s final regular season meeting of 2007. It feels like a bit of a throwback to years past, with two dinosaurs towing the rubber. More then any season in recent memory, 2007’s felt like a season of youth and the passing of torches, but tonight features two starting pitchers with a combined age of 85: Roger Clemens, 45, and Curt Schilling, 40. The last time these two squared off, as I’m sure we’ll hear 300 times over the course of tonight’s ESPN broadcast, was Game 7 of the 2001 World Series.

Clemens comes into tonight with his health very much in question, having told reporters just five days ago that an MRI on his elbow revealed internal bleeding and ligament damage. He’s thrown a couple bullpen sessions since, but it’s still hard to know what to expect in his first start since a September 3 drubbing by Seattle.

Schilling hasn’t won since he beat Chicago on August 24, but he’s recorded quality starts in four straight tries, including a game in the Bronx. Curt’s strikeouts are down along with his velocity, but he’s sported the same fantastic control we’ve come to expect and seems to be getting by while pitching to contact. Still, the stuff isn’t the same anymore, and it’ll be very interesting to see if he can handle the league’s best offense twice in a little over two weeks.

I wouldn’t be terribly surprised–though fairly disappointed in Curt–to see this turn into Joba vs Buchholz sometime around the fifth or sixth inning, which would be ironic, symbolic, and memorable for a bunch of different reasons I probably don’t have to lay out. And in a battle of the bullpens both teams appear to be well-stocked; I refuse to lose faith in Papelbon, who should be available with Gagne, MDC, and Buchholz waiting in the wings. New York should have Mariano, Vizcaino, and Chamberlain; maybe Torre will decide to use Farnsworth in a close game, too!!

In any case, history is on Boston’s side: New York leads the season series 9-8, so a win for the home team would even it all up. And doesn’t that just feel right?

1. Jacoby Ellsbury, LF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Mike Lowell, 3B
5. J.D. Drew, RF
6. Jason Varitek, C
7. Eric Hinske, 1B
8. Coco Crisp, CF
9. Julio Lugo, SS
— Curt Schilling, SP

1. Johnny Damon, LF
2. Derek Jeter, SS
3. Bobby Abreu, RF
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Jorge Posada, DH
6. Robinson Cano, 2B
7. Melky Cabrera, CF
8. Doug Mientkiewicz, 1B
9. Jose Molina, C
— Roger Clemens, SP

826 replies on “Wrapping It Up: Sox-Yanks Gamer XVIII”

Interesting that Giambi gets the day off instead of Jorge here, esp. after last night. Giambi’s defense at first was awful over the first two games: he cost at least 2 and possibly 4 or 5 outs. On the otherhand, he ignited that run off Okajima. You’d think Joe would have gone with a more defensive lineup with GB-prone Wang on the hill (though he didn’t throw his usual quotient, so whatever). Anyhow, Yanks certainly have some serious lumber on the pine in this thing: Matsui, Giambi, Betemit. Also: what happens if they want to pinch for Molina, and the game extends? Do they give up the DH? Hope we don’t find out.

With Detroit winning, this is definitely more of a must-win for New York. If only the Sox could have won Friday… The Yanks would have a half-game lead staring them in the face.

Oh god.. this game is on ESPN. Dies this mean I havce to deal with Joe Morgan? Maybe I’ll kill myself.

Based on the series thus far, the Yankees are down to five, maybe six batters, that I could say scare me. Cabrera hasn’t been impressive, Cano swings at EVERYthing, and Minky/Molina is a nice reprive for Schilling.

Before this series began, when I suggested the Yanks were still in a playoff dogfight, SF scoffed. Unfortunately I was right. And thank you very little Johan Santana!

Ugh, I wanted to watch both games at once in our living room but my roommate decided to paint today and the place reeks. So instead, Pats in my bedroom which doesn’t get ESPN. Dammit.

If Cano had hit that shot against a guy who wasn’t clarly gassed and giving up rockets to everyone, then sure. He looked awful against Daisuke, who wasn’t exactly throwing a perfect game himself.

aaaand Jeter man-love by Morgan begins. “He’s the captain and wants to set an example. You have to play hurt in S=ptember.”
Jeter hits a hard-smacked single off the wall.

Jeets! Fenway single off the wall. When he pulls it, that’s a good sign for Alex.
Ripped. 2b anywhere else.

Has anyone followed FJM to Mike Pagliarulo’s new blog There’s some high comedy going on over there.

Did Morgan say the Sox gave Lowell his gold glove before the game, “which was a little unusual.”
You think? Considering he won the Gold Glove in 2005?

Yeah, Morgan must have misunderstood the ceremony. Considering Lowell won his Glove with the Marlins, there’s no way the Sox would be having a ceremony for it.
Nice K of Abreu.

“Has anyone followed FJM to Mike Pagliarulo’s new blog There’s some high comedy going on over there.”
I think I read that after someone else linked to it, either Baseball Musings or In any event…he and Joe Morgan could make the dumbest babies ever.

In response to YF, I am going to post this, which I put in a buried thread. Surely nothing is decided, but YF is acting like the Yankees aren’t in an extremely good position w/r/t the Wild Card, which they most certainly are.
The Tigers are not likely to catch the Yankees. They have four left against the Twins (probably one against Santana next week), and three against the Indians starting tomorrow. They are down three in the loss column. Meanwhile, the Yankees spend a good deal of time against the Orioles (who are in utter tatters, with Bedard and Guthrie, the major thorns in the side of the Yanks, done for the year) and the Devil Rays (and who knows if Kazmir will be shut down in the last week of the season, for innings purposes). I think it’s highly unlikely the Tigers pull it out.

Alex had a hittable one there, and grounds it to short. Props to Schil, but Yanks had a chance for 2-0 there. Damn.

Props to Schil, but Yanks had a chance for 2-0 there.
“Passive Agressive YF” in the hizzouse tonight! We haven’t seen this since “Dice-K, hey, it was the Royals“. Welcome back!

The Yankees do have a losing record this year against Baltimore/TB, though without looking I’d bet Guthrie, Bedard and Kazmir are responsible for a fair number of those…

If Clemens’ arm detaches like a broken bat, should a Sox player pick it up and throw it right back at the pitcher?

Tough catch to make. I’d bet they rule it a hit. You have to do a lot wrong to get an error as an outfielder nowadays.

Heh, Damon fails, apparently unused to the lights at Fenway. Joe Morgan also fails, trailing off in his explanation of why Damon didn’t make the catch.

Innocent on that KC/Dice comment. And innocent now!
Meanwhile, looks like the Yanks brought the B defense tonite.

I think that’s about as far as Dusty can hit it the other way…
Well struck, but that’s a big right field. Too high.

Reading FJM’s take on Pags’ blog was painful enough, I don’t think I could handle the real thing.
Ellsbury running at will. I love it.

Yikes. Down the middle on 3-0 to Papi. THAT coulda been 2-0. ({assive aggressive now. SF?).
Why not just put him on.
And Roger barking after the walk. Take it.

Ellsbury is going to get adjusted to, no doubt, but this is certainly enjoyable, and he’s clearly quite talented. Very exciting times, these, with Dice, Ells, Dusty, Paps, Manny, etc.

He definitely went right over the ball. Possible that Clemens’ hefty frame obscured his view. ;)

Yanks made mistakes to the middle of the Sox order, and paid for it.
Actually, the big blows were by Hinske, Crisp, Ellsbury.

Well, he killed the rally, but no fault of his own. Great play by Mientkewicz to save at least one run.

I don’t really care that Tek had a nice play made on him: he hits nothing but grounders, popups, or strikes out. He’s so worn out. Hopefully the Sox can clinch a few days early and get him a little rest. He needs it. He’s piling up the LOB like mad.

No blame for Varitek there. He hit it damn well.
As for Tek in general… anyone else see him as Manager of the Red Sox in ten years?

But Varitek does what Varitek’s been doing all week and strands a pair.
That’s not really fair, that would have easily been a double if Giambi was at 1B.

Yeah, but that’s a line drive that happened to bounce once. I know he’s sucked, but that’s a hit either of the last two nights.
Clemens: Lots of pitches, and the three outs were either scalded or deep.

“As for Tek in general… anyone else see him as Manager of the Red Sox in ten years?”
I can see him as Gabe Kapler’s bench coach, since Kap’s ahead of him on the managerial depth chart. :-)
In all seriousness, I think Kapler’s going to manage somewhere. Early reviews of his time in the minors are very positive, though I have no links available at the moment to prove it…

Tek would be a great manager for the sox in a while IMO…easy transition, been a soxplayer for most of his career, one of the only captains in the team history….he’s got my vote.

What?? Alex Cora is the smartest man in baseball! How dare you consider any current or former Red Sox over him!

“As for Tek in general… anyone else see him as Manager of the Red Sox in ten years?”
Before Tito took over, I thought that Tek could have been an option as player/manager, providing the Sox had brought in an old hand as bench coach.

Schilling used to get Ks on that high fastball on the 0-2 count. Now he’s getting popups and grounders. It’s amazing how this seemed to happen almost overnight.

Speaking of the Mientkiewicz for Giambi sub – am I mis-remembering, or did Schilling give up a HR to M. the last time we played?

Ugh, Dane Cook. How did MLB go from having Don Cheadle as the ‘face of October baseball’ to this douche?

There’s only one October and they spell it incorrectly?
How many SFs out there just traded allegiance to pinstripes after that Dane Cook spot? Awful.

I had this fantasy the other day. 10 years in the future. Red Sox lead Yankees 2-1 in the 7th, thnaks to a clutch double by Team Captain Jacoby Ellsbury. Clay Buchholz is on the mound and has just given up a 2-out double and is laboring.
Patting hitting coach Robo-Ortiz on the back (David was injured in the Great Xygon War and is now a cyborg.. still has the smile!), Manager Jason Varitek trots out to the mound to meat with Buchholz and his catcher. After a few choice words, Tek goes back to the dugout.
Buchholz then sits down the Yankee batter on a sweet K.
Sox go on to win!
Only bad part? The game was on ESPN and beign called by the somehow still employed Floating Head of Joe Morgan.

He gave up an important homer to Dougie M at some point, you’re right about that. Last time Curt faced NY he gave up 2 solo shots to Cano, which were the only runs he allowed. I think the game we’re thinking of was on May 23, a game Boston wound up losing.
That ACTOBER thing comes from a contest MLB is having where you renact a memorable moment in baseball history and send in the video. Get it, ACTober. I guess they thought it was clever.

Adding my $0.02 to the discussion from yesterday – I’ve finally seen that Hinske/Posada play (several times) and it looks perfectly clean to me. Hinske’s elbow hit Posada’s arm, nowhere near his neck.

YF complained a bit in the car ride home about the Hinske play, but it was clearly a clean, physical play.

Thanks for the explanation of the Actober thing. That is terrible.
Also, good to know I wasn’t hallucinating that HR. I just remember thinking “oh man, Schilling must be cooked if M. can launch one off him…”

I will admit that I thought Hinske looked like he gave Posada a bit extra elbow high from where we were sitting, but with the replays it was fair, and the Yanks have conceded as much. Just hate to see Jorge take that kind of hit. And then to let the next run in anyway? That was a killer.

The replay shows clearly that Hinske’s shoulder is against Posada’s face — NOT his forearm, so there’s really no argument that I can see.
Lugo walks.

Having now seen the replay for the first time (in addition to seeing it live), it’s clear that the play was just a massive homeplate collision. Hinske came in clean, Posada made a totally great play. Nothing dirty about it, at all. Torre, Giambi both went on the record as saying it was perfectly clean, from what I read this morning.

I remember thinking the exact same thing, Jackie…
Roger pitches around the terrifying Julio Lugo? Coco tried to hand him a quick inning, but he politely declined. How nice of him.

Thanks for the explainer, Josh. They should have at least capitalized the ACT in their ads. All it does is make them look stupid.

you re-enact yrou favorite scenes form the history of octobers provided with clips form and other teams. I think you win womething or not. however I must admit it is cool to see the youth of america getting into actober and making movies about the storied history of baseball.

“Go Ms!”
Just reminded me…if they were anyone but the Seattle Mariners, think about what people would be saying about Seattle right now. Imagine if that were Boston or Philly or one of the NY’s…talk about a collapse of epic proportions. I mean it was easy to see coming, given their rotation and Pythag, but still…

Minky with the early lead for the set of post-game steakknives and/or gift certificate to Snyder Leather.

So, now we just need to score a whole bunch so nobody can argue that that call was the difference-maker in the game. :/

>>>Schillign struggling
Geez, the guy is at 35 pitches and just two baserunners through three, and has thrown 27 strikes to just 8 balls… Against this lineup, I’m *very* pleased so far.

Greetings friends. Was in baseball-following-hell yesterday. At family friends’ house that turned out to have NO TV, NO internet, and TERRIBLE radio reception. Deliverance Part II.
The only thing worse than Sterling/Waldman = Sterling/Waldman with plenty of static.
As it turns out, the way the game went, I was happy to not be able to follow.
Crappy call at first. Feel like I have seen more bad calls this year – on all sides – than in recent memory. Frustrating

Did Joe Morgan just insinuate that bad calls happen in Boston on a frequent basis? This isn’t the patriots. Fire Joe Morgan.

Sorry SF. Im an incurable pessimist. My stomahc is really chruning. I literally feel like I might vomit… ever since Minky singled.

Dio, he had Damon struck out on the 2-2. Not sure what you mean by command slipping. If you mean he’s unlikely to throw 17 out of his next 20 pitches for strikes, then sure, his command is “slipping.”

Yanks completely robbed here. That’s a horrible blown call. Seriously. Not even close. And with the big guns coming up. Not right at all. The breaks don’t even out in late September when there’s a playoff spot on the line. That’s just a huge f*ck up.

No need to be so nervous, Dio… Schill’s looked really good in his last couple outings and I think he’s doing well tonight. Looks much better than Roger, anyway (in my humble opinion).

Josh – yeah, lots of loud outs. Several of those just shy of the monster, though, so not *so* loud.

I wouldn’t say they *always* even out. Sometimes a blown call is a really big deal… if the shoe was on the other foot I’d be completely furious.

Yanks completely robbed here. That’s a horrible blown call. Seriously. Not even close. And with the big guns coming up. Not right at all. The breaks don’t even out in late September when there’s a playoff spot on the line. That’s just a huge f*ck up.
In the voice of Artie Lange, WAAAAAAAAAH.

Yeah, like SF wouldn’t have been apoplectic if it happened the other way! Please! Pot meet kettle. You’re both black.

Adalius Thomas for the Pats to the locker room with a lower back injury. Doubtful for the rest of the game.

But seriously, the Sox have capitalized when the Yankee pitcher have put men on base in front of the heart of their order. That’s what good teams do. The Yanks were in a position to do that there, and they lost the shot for not just one run, but a big inning. Now, yeah, we’ll never know, and they have plenty of opportunities, there was no guarantee they would have scored, it’s the breaks of the game. Fine. But that’s still a potential game-changer.

God Sterling/Waldman are insufferable. Sounds like both old men are pitching well. Let’s see whose back gives out first…

I suppose over the course of a season – I thought you meant over the course of a game or series.
Even so, I’m not gonna criticize anyone for being pissed about a blown call… just because I can recall a few that made me want to punch things/call WEEI.

So the difference between major and minor leagu shortstops.. is that major leaguers can catch more difficult plays?
I never THOUGHT that a major leager would be better than a minor leaguer. Thanks Joe!

Someone get Dion some Dramamine…
Abreu flies out, 9.
ARod grounds out, 6-3.
Posada flies out, 8.
Quick inning for Curt, 8 pitches, now at 34 strikes, 9 balls. I’m impressed.

Certain blown calls suck worse than others. One with runners on in close games with the heart of the order of the strongerst offense in baseball coming up – yeah, that sucks more than a missed strike call in a blow out. But I won’t blame the game on it no matter what happens.
What I really don’t get is why there seem to be more obvious-to-the-naked-eye missed calls this year than I can remember in pretty much any previous season. I really think the umpiring across the board has gotten worse somehow. Or maybe it’s just a bad year.

Here’s a good way to watch the game if you can’t deal with Joe Morgan: Picture in picture, Pats/Chargers on the big screen, Sox/Yanks on the little screen. Al Michaels ain’t too bad, though Madden rarely strays past cliche at this point.
Or, if you don’t care about the Pats, do it with a DVR’d Curb Your Enthusiasm, Ace of Cakes, Top Chef, etc.

Fair enough, Jackie…
>>>God Sterling/Waldman are insufferable.
At least we won’t have to hear him say, “THE GI-AM-BI-NO!!” tonight.
Sterling seems to aim his play-by-play at the junior high market.

What I really don’t get is why there seem to be more obvious-to-the-naked-eye missed calls this year than I can remember in pretty much any previous season.
I blame expansion.

Better yet, watch the game with the audio from the Emmys.
… or am I really the only girl here?

Sterling’s call on the Ellsbury low-slide-under-Posada yesterday had both YF and I laughing on the car ride home during WFAN’s updates. I think Sterling said, excitedly, that the throw was “in time!”, then a break, then “he’s safe!”, then a pause, then “the throw was in time, but he didn’t get the tag down”, to cover his own ass. Technically right, but the modulation in his voice portrayed nothing like what happened.

Drew sturck out looking. Perfect pitch by Roger. Drew should have swung.
Im gonna miss Taverez when he’s gone. So many fun jokes will be taken away from us. Orc jokes. Freddy Krueger jokes. Homicidal voodoo maniac jokes…
Now.. what.. we’re jsut not swinging anymore?

Clemens gets his 4th K in a row. Well.. we bette rbe abel to stop the Yanks cause we ain’t getting any more runs.

“I really think the umpiring across the board has gotten worse somehow. Or maybe it’s just a bad year.”
If MLB were testing umps for uppers too, that could explain the rise in brain-fart calls.

I agree with the blown-call sentiment. I also feel strike zones have been more noiceably inconsistent, not from umpire to umpire, but by the same umpire in the same game.
Jeter misplays but recovers to catch Hinske’s floater.

SF: the previous night, on a ball hit over Melky’s head, he screamed “He caught it!”, and then, “No, it falls – it bounced off Melky’s mitt”, to which Waldman said (and she usually doesn’t embarass him like this) “the ball went over Melky’s mitt and hit the wall” and after a few seconds Sterling responded, “well, the ball skimmed off the tip of the glove” (!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!). Ridiculous.

Dio: you are among the most doom-and-gloom-expecting Sox fans I have ever encountered on the web. You guys are winning and your guy is pitching well!

Did he just misread that ball or did he read it well enough to know how to make a nice jump for it? The conspirator in me wonders.

SF and I sat through about 54 hours of sloppy ball in 2 days. And now they’re just cruising through this. Grrr.

Hinske at least makes contact, but lines/pops out to the Gold Glover at short. [snort]
Clemens has more Ks, but Schilling’s pitch count is better so far: 58 vs. 43. If the Sox get an extra inning out of their starter, that could be the difference…

Jeter should have caught that ball, then run straight over towards the stands at full speed and vaulted into the crowd, bloodying his lip. Gold Glove voters everywhere would be mark their ballots immediately.

SF and I sat through about 54 hours of sloppy ball in 2 days. And now they’re just cruising through this. Grrr.
I don’t recall much sloppy ball from the Sox yesterday, YF.

Dio, you seem like you need an anxiety med of some kind. :) I feel oddly calm about this game… I don’t think anything that happens today could be worse than Friday’s debacle.

Hudson: I feel OK with two innings of Joba and one of Mo – if we get there of course.
Cano – heartbeat reaching woolly mammoth levels – rounds the bases. Way to go Mr. smooth.

Schilling always does that. Except for the near-no-hitter, he seems incapable of avoiding the one or two solo homers that ensure a no-decision or a loss in a tight game. Maybe it’s just my perception, but I almost posted today wondering aloud which Yankee would hit the homer to ruin his outing.

“…And now they’re just cruising through this. Grrr.”
Thank God YF, I can barely keep my eyes open. I need a quick one. I was at the Meadowlands this morning at 7:45 for a 1 O’Clock game.

Hudson – I was saying the same thing, except that Typepad wouldn’t let me say [brand name prescription medication]. I’m not spam, I promise…

Cano looks like a little-leaguer flailing away in roughly %60 of the ab’s I’ve ever seen him take. The rest of the time he hits the ball hard. Which is why I can’t stand watching him…
If that’s the only run Curt allows and he doesn’t get the win, I’ll be more then a little surprised.

Great inning except for the homer that looked like a popout if this game were in da Bronx. Figures. Always happens.
Oh well, tie game and Clemens’ pitch count is up.

>>>Jeter should have caught that ball, then run straight over towards the stands at full speed and vaulted into the crowd […]
Heh, SF..
Curt gets three quick outs after the homer. 51 pitches through 5, incredibly efficient so far.

Innign over, but damage is done.
I just.. I cant deal with Red Sox-Yankees. September is the WORSE month for me stress wise. Even October is easier.

he seems incapable of avoiding the one or two solo homers that ensure a no-decision or a loss in a tight game.
This seems a little accusatory, and kind of unfair. Is Schill responsible for his offense keeping games tight or low-scoring? He’s pitched five innings of one run ball against the best offense in all of baseball. What more can we ask for, a perfect game? This seems quite unfair to me as a criticism, at this point in the game.

Which is why I can’t stand watching him…
I can’t stand watching him because, though he’s a hell of a talent, he walks around the field like he owns it. Yesterday after making an out he literally walked off the field from near first to the dugout after running through first. The game had to wait for Robi to make it back to the bench. He comes off as a total d*ck, though he may, in fact, not be one at all.

Well, it may be unfair, but it’s my perception. I didn’t say it was rational. It just always makes me wince and think, “Man, if it was even just a double, the Sox win the game.” Ah well.

God.. they keep talkign about how it might be Clemens’ ‘last start at fenway’. Seriously.. why even bother talkign about it? We’ve talked about it BEFORE. OTHER years. Just drop it until he actually retires, then we can look back.

SF, as ever, picking nits for no reason.
Man, if I had a tape of your running commentary over the last two days, I could take this comment down in no time. Alas, the tapes have been destroyed.

Roger is looking pretty damned good. I was sort of expecting the end of his career tonite, with bleeding ligaments, etc.
Of course, I heard that Roger was spotted at a paint store before his MRI, purchasing red paint…

Not an accusation, but I have the same perception. One or two bad pitches frequently seem to decide the game against Schilling.
JI- JIM THOME has a walkoff for his 500th HR. Nice.

I’ve noticed that too, SF, but that’s more about him as a player…I just don’t like his approach at the plate. Free swingers in general sort of irritate me. I wouldn’t enjoy watching him in a Sox uni either, believe me. Crisp often seems to take a similar approach…but given the D, he gets a little bit of a pass.
Youk’s out with a badly bruised wrist. No breaks, supposedly. I’d assume he doesn’t play again until the end of the week.
INTERCEPTION!!! Adalius Thomas picks a 3rd and 1 pass and runs it all the way back for the TD! 24-0 NE, extra point pending!

I didn’t realize how much Yankee fans hated Youkilis until I read some of the LoHud and Banter reax to the HBP. Very little concern about whether he was actually hurt. A lot of vengeful rhetoric.

YF will not have to worry about monitoring the nits I pick: I am off to an internetless bedroom for some shuteye (and a little baseball, probably).

Inning over, Roger at 70 pitches.
I like our chances OK tonight, actually. Right now this game is a complete toss-up. Schilling could throw a complete game at this rate.

That’s what’s great about this place Paul, even Yankee fans were concerned about Youk yesterday. For the most part we aren’t the d*cks you find elsewhere ;)

>>>Very little concern about whether he was actually hurt. A lot of vengeful rhetoric.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that, too… Why is that, YFs? (I’m trying to remember some game when Youks got a walk-off homer or something, but nothing comes to mind.)

True that, Trisk. The tone here is always far different than the illiterate banshees at LoHud, especially.

Paul: I think he’s prone to talking in the press. Cliff Corcoran, over on BB, who is not one to easily throw stones, referred to him as the Greek God of Squak, a riff on the walk name.
As for this YF, I’ll root for any Jew in the majors. Also, i hated to see him writhing on the ground yesterday. I want the Yanks to beat the Sox fair-and-square, with full rosters. It’s disappointing we’ve missed Manny this series. Last thing I want to see is Youk hurt.
Pedroia, though……KIDDING!

“He comes off as a total d*ck, though he may, in fact, not be one at all.”
As someone who watches every Yankee game (except when in the middle of nowhere like yesterday), and honestly not as a total Yankee homer, Cano does not come across in interviews and games as an arrogant jerk. He actually comes across as pretty shy and quiet. He just can’t shake a very lackadaisical appearance when he plays, which you may read as arrogance. It bothers me more that, though he apparently works like crazy and proactively asks Larry Bowa to work with him on his fielding all the time, sometimes seems sloppy for no good reason. And at other times, seems otherwordly. The same Jekyll and Hyde manifests itself at the plate. When he is focused in the field and disciplined at the plate, he is amazing all around. I just wish he was both of those things 100% of the time.

Schillign wont be abel to limit the Yansk to ONE run, Hudson. I can’t beleive that. Good pitcher, but Beckett he ain’t anymore.
Roger can still get through the 7th or 8th, then you have Joba and Mariano. we’re in trouble, unless we score SOON.

Even the usually even-handed Clif Corcoran called him the “Jewish God of Sqwalks” when referring to the HBP, as if rolling around on the ground screaming in pain was an act.

Tigers miss Carmona in the series next week, guess us Yankee fans need to hope Paul Byrd can shut them down.

Really, the Yankees should be winning 2-1…or more. Just another blown call that could affect the outcome of a Yankees game.

They miss Carmona, but they do get Sabathia, John.
And the Orioles have lost Baez (ok.. not a bgi deal), Guthrie (big deal), and Bedard (HUGE deal)

Just chiming in here but has anyone noticed the Yankeeography on ESPN so far?
Why did they spend the entire bottom of the 4th/5th (can’t remember) talking about Joba. I’m trying to watch my team’s at-bat and they’re flashing to Joba in the pen. It’s not even bullpen time. I want to focus on the action at the plate not Joba’s dad.

Well, Dion, there’s another very efficient inning for Schill, 10 pitches, who is at just 61 pitches through 6 innings, and has been consistently tossing 3 strikes for every ball all night…
(Not that I’m not also bracing myself for a potentially wrenching ending; we *are* Sox fans after all. On the other hand, yesterday’s win resolved a ton of angst for me… until Game One of the postseason.)

10 pitch inning for Schill. 61 through 6 in what feels like the fastest Yankee-Sox game in a long time. Only 1 K for Curt, but it sure doesn’t seem like the Yanks are making much solid contact…

Can’t speak for all Yankee fans, but I for one don’t hate Youk. I don’t like him, but I don’t like many Red Sox. I think the only guy I truly hate is Manny and that’s more for the way he comes across then his team. (I guess the way Cano pisses you guys off, Ramirez does that for me.)

I don’t hate Youkilis. I don’t particularly like him – guys with beards who scowl and/or whine alot on the Red Sox tend to annoy me generally (Varitek/Youkilis), but I have no real animus towards him. If I had to choose a Sox to hit – and I would rather not hit anyone – it would probably be Schilling, who we will never see at bat anyway.

On the other hand, yesterday’s win resolved a ton of angst for me… until Game One of the postseason.
Ditto, Hudson. A win would be great, but I’m not sweating it nearly so much.
Pedroia swings hard, but he just doesn’t have that opp-field power to pull off slapping at pitches that far out of the zone…

Varitek whines? I rarely see him open his mouth about anything; when he’s mad at an ump he walks away and stares into the distance, which seems like the best possible way of handling frustration. I guess it could be related to that fight, though…

Hudson, as long as it is a close game and Boston wins, I suspect yes, you will hear it again. Not from me, but I don’t begrudge others venting since it simply was not a close play and it was hugely significant.

I don’t get how some Yankee fans criticize blown ump’s calls when Derek Jeter is on their team. That guy has had more phantom tags than anyone else in the league, he sells the sh*t outta them and gets the call. Don’t hear the Yankees complaining about that.

Oh yeah I hate Schilling also, thanks for reminding me Iron Horse.
Dionysus, agreed the Yankees aren’t facing Koufax, Gooden and Maddux in Baltimore, but the matchups in that series are all in the favor of the Tigers, except game #3. Hate to look ahead, but it’s going to be a stress filled week for Yankee fans.

Pedroia not having a good night at the plate…
Brady throws a pick with time winding down. He tried to go deep since the half was almost over, threw a bad pass, and Stallworth tipped it up to the waiting defender. No biggy; 24-0 at the half.

In my view, Varitek complains about calls alot, pouts and stomnps off the field more often than not when he K’s looking. Because he does it all with a furrowed mono-brow others might view this as tough-guyness. I view it as whining.

Fine = the walk to Manny, not the bs about phantom tags and Jeter. What’s that gotta do with anything here? Bupkis.

I see it as more anger at himself rather than at the ump in regards to Tek, IronHorse.
But then.. we see what we want to see from our teams.
Lowell gets his second hit! But here come Drew and Tek to screw us. We need Manny NOW!
How abotu a surprise PH?

“Some guys you need to have statistics yo help your team win. These guys bring more than statistics.”
I like how statistics have suddenly become something more than the numerical representations of ACTUAL PERFORMANCE!
If Clemens had “more than” statistics without the actual stats, I guess Joe thinks he would still be helping his team win.

Hudson: After you puke on Sterling, and he takes his shoes off to clean them, I’ll urinate on his socks. Deal?

Surprise me, Tek. He hits that same ball to that same location he did in the first, he probably has a double.

Come on, guys, don’t you see the narrative possibilities here? Tek breaking through against Clemens to carry the team… it would be a great story…

there have been a lot of recent comparisons of Youk to Paul O’Neill, his more theatrical displays of anger at calls or disappointment in his own failures. I see some legitimacy in that comparison, and I didn’t like Paulie. So I can see why some Yankee fans may not love the guy: wrong uniform.

GREAT grab by Damon in left! Makes up for that leadoff error.
I expect to see Joba out there in the bottom of the 7th, no matter what happens in the top of the inning.

Fraking A’. Tek gets robbed again. Although had a betyter fielder than Damon been there, it would have even been a question.. just an automatic out.
I still predict Yankees in this one. That was our innign to win it and we failed.

Lots of material for FJM tonight. I kinda see his point about veteran pitchers bringing more than just their on-field talent, with mentoring and that sort of thing, but it was a tortured attempt at making that point.

Glad SF was asleep for that. I think every time Tek makes an out with men on his blood pressure spikes by about 600 percent.

That DHL commercial has the most ridiculous Matsuzaka stand-in ever. Guy doesn’t even look like Matsuzaka from the back — and I think he’s wearing glasses.

“there have been a lot of recent comparisons of Youk to Paul O’Neill”
Mostly by Youk himself. As long as he doesn’t compare himself to Donald Arthur I am cool with whatever he says.

Dio: Anon was me…bet you didn’t think it was a yf did you? Just goes to show, Sterling inspires the creative disgust regardless of fandom.

I was just about to say I wasn’t sure about bringing Schill back to face A-Rod in the 7th. But it seems to have worked out okay.

“So I can see why some Yankee fans may not love the guy”
There’s a big difference. Youkilis is much more of a whiner. If you read his pathetic whining to the media about how Yankee fans ‘hate’ him and he ‘can’t understand why’ you’ll see.
I don’t hate Youk, I like his goatee. He’s ugly as all fuck, but at least it works for him. Pedroia’s just ugly. I hate seeing him. Ugh.

Youk himself made the comp to Paul O’Neill, not an unfair one though. Certainly no Quayle-Kennedy.

Posada missed that one. I thought for sure it was gone coming out of Schill’s hand. Maybe it’s just me though.

Wait.. why do we care who’s ugly? Is there a stat for beign pretty? Does it help win ballgames?
Will beign pretty make Clemens so in awe that he says “Awww shuck. He’s so nice looking.. I might as well hang this next curve”?
I don’t get why people say Pedroia of Youk are ugly as if thats a factor in Baseball

I didn’t like that story where Youk talked about whether the Yanks had it out for him. It struck me as an example of where the reporter comes up and says, “Youk, you’ve been hit or thrown at four times by the Yanks this year. You think they have it out for you?”
And then he says, “I dunno, maybe they do.”
And the reporter says, “Why do you think that might be?”
Once Youk answers, it’s a story about him wondering why the Yanks have it out for him.
I don’t know if that’s what happened, but it sure felt like it.

“I don’t get why people say Pedroia of [sic] Youk are ugly as if thats a factor in Baseball”
I honestly believe Randy Johnson’s ugliness had tangible results on the diamond.

8 pitch inning. Curt at 69 through 7. At this rate he could go 10 or 11 if he had to…
Paul: Agree completely about that argue. I thought the “Maybe they just don’t like me” line was almost entirely tongue in cheek and a direct response to a fairly pointless question. But of course, the LOHUDites took tremendous offense…

Here comes Chamberlain. Pains me to say it but Roger pitched pretty well tonight. Granted, I wasn’t actually watching, and it sounded like he had a few timely well-struck balls find some mitts…but still. A very good performance, all things considered, and props to Torre for pulling him before things got too hairy.

If Joba comes in here, props to Joe. But I still question DHing Jorge with Giambi and Matsui and Betemit on the bench. Now it’s late in the game, it’s tied (at least going into the Sox at bat), and Molina’s due. There’s no way to pinch for him without losing the DH. If he had started Giambi, we’d be in the same position here, but with a pretty awesome replacement ready for Molina. So not so happy about that.

I’ve thought of a player who’s ugliness afftected his play!
David Wells! After all he was so Hutt-ian that he could barely field and his heart almost exploded with every pitch.
God I HATED him. So glad he’s not on the team anymore. Your a freaking athlete.. take care of your damn body. Its your JOB to be ATHLETIC to HELP your tem.

Schill at 69 through 7. Think he’ll come out for the 8th?
I’m hoping we score 6 or so runs here and get Gagne some work.

“Its your JOB to be ATHLETIC to HELP your tem.”
You must really dislike Curt Schilling and David Ortiz.

David Ortiz is a DH. He has no fielding responsibilites. A pitcher DOES have to field 1st base.
As for Curt.. I DO indeed ahve issue with the weight he put on.

(F)JM perpetuating this Yankees vs. Youk thing. He gets hit a lot by everyone. He just stands in close to the plate. I think it’s really that simple.

God damn stupid fans. WHy do you such INCREDIBLY stupid stuff? Makes us Red Sox fans look bad.
God dammit.

That’s the type of situation where you can’t fault Cano or any Yankee if they tackle the drunk fool who does that.
That’s twice I had to hear about Slow Joe Doyle in 2 days…

“Maybe we’ll see a suicide squeeze.”
Not with Hinske running. Not having another 1B really hurts us here.

Unless Kevin Cash has speed, there’s not much on the bench anyway. Lugo, Crisp and Ellsbury are already in the game.

“Not with Hinske running. Not having another 1B really hurts us here.”
Meh. It’s the 7th inning and Boston is not generally a small-ball team. I don’t think we’d see a pinch-runner here in any situation; if he’d hit a single instead of a double, we might have…but not with him on 3rd.

>>>Not having another 1B really hurts us here.
David Ortiz plays 1B. A lot better than most people give him credit for. But I never really understand the rule on this, whether that would mean giving up the DH slot.

See? I f*cking HATE sacrifice bunts, especially with Julio f*cking Lugo on deck. Did anyone really expect him to play fundamental baseball and hit a ball in the air? Because I sure didn’t…
Good f*cking luck Jacoby.

“I don’t think we’d see a pinch-runner here in any situation; if he’d hit a single instead of a double, we might have…but not with him on 3rd.”
Not that it’s an issue now, D1, but having a little more speed (Moss, Kielty, Cora) on 3rd could make a big difference on a groundball.

Wow, that ended up being close. Gah. I agree. Sac bunt pretty useless there unles you’ve got a Pedroia or a Lowell up — guys who just don’t strike out.

Really glad I wasn’t watching for that Ellsbury groundout. Would have gotten so, so mad if I’d had to see the fist-pump/stomp/three-chin-jiggle from Chamblerain, which I’m assuming came after the out was made.
And yes, I realize Paps’ antics are basically the same. I don’t blame anyone for disliking him.

Gotta get some food, I think. See y’all in the 13th inning or whatever it invariably will go to…

That’s a pretty cool stat, that there has never been a starting pitcher combo at Fenway with more total wins than Clemens and Schilling.

I was only a great pitch because it WORKED Joe. In actually idea it was a horrible idea. Had he not swung, thered be a man on with nobody out in the first.

Doug singles. See? Had Melky walked, there’d be runners at the corners with no outs.
PLEASE doubel play here.

Falls behind Melky 3-1 then gets him swinging. That’s the longest AB by a Yankee so far tonight, aside from another 6-pitch battle by Damon in the 3rd. And there were only like 1 or 2 that took 5 pitches.
Why would you pull Schilling here? I mean really? He’s at 77 pitches and gave up a 1-out single. Big deal, it’s a single.

Giambi really does not like DH’ing, and the fact that he had to run around to find his bat does not make me feel like he was likely swinging in the cage. Hmmmm.

Sterling with the G*&*&*&*&DA(&(&N premature home run call. I HATE HIM. I HATE HIM. I HATE HIM. I HATE HIM. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grr. Bad throw by Ellsbury lets Giambi take second on the wall single. Just get the out here, Schill. Come on.

Grr. Bad throw by Ellsbury lets Giambi take second on the wall single. Just get the out here, Schill. Come on.

Gambit pays off. Now it’s all on JD again. He was rooked once with men on.
Matsui will bat if the Pitcher slot comes up again, and Betemit if there’s a 3rd opportunity—i guess joe ffigures he has the horses in the pen and on the bench to lose the dh here.

I’m sorry for that, but I can NOT STAND “IT IS HIGH, IT IS FAR, IT IS………caught/off the wall/foul”. It so so infuriating.

D1, if Posada moves to catcher, they lose the DH. If they brought up another catcher today (which is what JM is saying), and they use him, they don’t lose the DH.
However, Posada has put on the gear.

Typepad’s really screwing up on me. Sorry for the double post.
Wow, Pedroia maintains his focus despite the bat flying past him. Key out there.

Wow. That was insane.
Glad Hiunske’s ok.. REALLY glad that the runners didnt advance.
Still gotta retire Jeter though. This iwll be Schillings last batter, either way

I don’t think it was a mistake to leave Schilling in, no matter what the result. The guy has plenty left in him, a relatively low pitch count, and has thrown a brilliant game.
Damon grounds out and the runners don’t move. Pedroia finds the ball among the bat splinters.

“This iwll be Schillings last batter, either way”
Really think so? Unless Jeter puts on a marathon ab, I’d rather Tito leave him out there. Then again I’m not watching the game, and have no idea whether he looks tired or anything like that…I’d just rather avoid the bullpen for as long as possible.

I think Morgan’s right — How do you tell where the ball is, and whether it’s a grounder or a line drive, when bat fragments and the ball are all flying in the same direction?

Schilling doesn’t want to face Abreu. He’s the one who Schilling called “the best hitter after July” (or something very close to that) when the Yankees landed him last year.

(Who the heck is this Yankee pinch-runner Sardinha? Nevaherdovim.)
Curt to Derek, hyuuuuge at bat here:
– Swinging strike
– Ball
– Ball (93 mph, very close call, there ‘ya go YFs)
– Long mound conference
– Jeter asks for time
– Check-swing foul
– Another conference
[Dion is dying somewhere]
– Foul, Drew and Pedroia giving chase


How did I know that would happen?
What did I say? Two bad pitches from Schilling: All four runs in this ballgame.

Especially his smug face . . . devil personified. Bwaah! I *knew* I should be watching the Patriots instead.

Not Tito’s fault. Entirely Schilling’s. That’s really all there is to it. 4 runs over 7.2 is nothing to be particularly proud of, and with first base open why the F*CK would you throw anything CLOSE to that fat a pitch? F*CKING stupid.

I swear, if I could clone the Derek Jeter/ David Ortiz “how-I-feel-in-the-clultch” gene, it would be so much more valuable than all the Steroids and HGH in the world. I don’t know what it is with these guys. It’s like they just KNOW that the pitcher is under more pressure than they are and they have no fear. OK, I know it is annoying for Sox fans since it is Jeter who just struck, but I am in awe at the performance of those two athletes in particular.

Glad Tek and Schills went for about 8 mound meetings there.
Meanwhile, extras for Abreu on pitch 1 for Lopez, and here comes MDC for Alex. Why not walk him and leave in the lefty?

I was just cursing the non-aggressive base running in this inning when Jeter made it academic. What a battle.

I don’t know what it is, but I feel like we’re being set up for a come from behind win to get a little bit back for Friday.
I think maybe that game just broke my soul.

Hudson: I think it is only SFs (Dio to be specific) who are calling this game already. A 2-run lead means very little to me in Fenway with two innings left. What is the bottom of the 8th order for Boston? I don’t remember who got the last out, but I sadly know it was not Ortiz.

Is there a reason Schilling thought his 91/92 fastball could suddenly strike Derek Jeter out when thrown right down the plate?
Prediction: Schilling will talk about how he just made amental mistake on two pitches. He makes two of those every game, and they inevitably lead to the worst possible results because he doesn’t have the stuff anymore to limit those results.

Sterling giving props to Mientkeiwicz and on this he is right. DM’s 2 for 3 with a 2-run-saving play at first base.

How is it that after I am done banging my head on the table after the 3 run homer, I look up to see Abreu on 2nd and ARod swinging the bad. Nightmares are made of this stuff.

Umm…it’s a 3 run lead. And if you’re telling me you don’t feel comfortable with the Hutt and Mariano coming in…well, I’d say you’re lying, at least a little bit.
I’m also resisting the very strong urge to talk about how much I already despise Chamberlain, since it’s almost entirely related to his weight and I feel like an a**hole.
And the Pats are trying really hard to put San Diego back into this. 31-14, but New England fumbled the return and the Chargers have it at midfield.

They have no idea what they are talking about, the Yankees have NOT called up any catchers. They have 2 and only 2.
Sardinha (spelling?) had a great spring training for the Yankees.

There’s nothing that would make me happier than rallying to win against Joba Chamberlain. But I hold out very little hope for that actually happening.

jimintokyo: I was serious abotu Schilling not wanting to face Abreu, especially with bases loaded. I am not defending whatever he threw to Jeter sinc I can’t even see it and have to takes SF’s words for it that it was a fat pitch, but if he walked Jeter, he had one of the hottest August hitters (who has done great in Fenway ever since joiing the Yankees last year) coming up, and then A-Rod. I don’t think Schilling should have walked Jeter.

Phew, ARod Ks. 3 run lead . . . that’s less than 6 right? We’re still in the 8th inning – we need payback for Friday.

Tyrel, lol – I saw that after I posted – wish we could fix those. On the other hand, whenever he’s swinging the bat, it always feels bad.

I stepped away before Iron Horse, but yes Igawa was warming. I think Andrew was correct though, he must have just been getting him some work in.
Two dropped balls for Jorge, squeeze it kid.

Morgan and Miller mistake a WEEI sign (they hand out hundreds before every game) for a fan’s homemade sign. God, they are so, so stupid.

>>>Pedroia is huge here. We do NOT need the drama of Ortiz up as the tying run.
GOD, will you YFs please stop taunting us by pretending it’s a two-run lead? It’s THREE.
Anyway, Ortiz flies out.

Josh, you really think Joba is fat? I don’t know…Britton = fat, I think Joba is just a big kid.
HR “Mikey” Lowell. It won’t be the last Joba, relax.

Joba gives up a legit earned run. Oh well. Don’t panic Torre and bring in Mo. Let the kid stay in there and close it off.

ooohhhhh and Joba’s streak of unearned runs ends as soon as I turn the TV on again. Poop.
Mike Lowell is just having a career season. The Sox MVP by a long shot.

Hudson. I am sorry – seriously. I did not realize it was 3 – I thought it was 2. I am listning to tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum and I thought it was a 2-run HR for Jeter.
Anyway…my bad.

Paul, you must’ve taken a bathroom break during Sweet Caroline — well, maybe they were just heading for the can.

“Josh, you really think Joba is fat? I don’t know…Britton = fat, I think Joba is just a big kid.”
Yeah…I do. If I can see multiple chins in a head-on photo, you’re a big boy…
And Joba’s ERA is .51, pending the end of this inning.

haha my TV viewership must be bad luck for the Yanks.
… Maybe not. STRIKE THREE on that SICKKK curveball. SHA-BLAUW!!!

Ohhhhhhh that curve was disgusting. Filthy isn’t even the right word… we’re talking New York City subway station in 100° heat and 95% humidity filthy.

Considering it’s a break between innings, and I don’t see any empty seats, I’d guess it was tyical mid-inning milling around…

Who is this clown with Joe Morgan, by the way? As if Morgan himself wasn’t painful enough to listen to…

If you looked closely on that overhead shot, you could see the big pile of shattered lumber courtesy of Schilling’s jamming.

(What a waste of what was shaping up as a truly stellar Schilling outing. He’s too much of a vet to have made that “mental” mistake.)
Gagne Ks Posada. Are we finally going to get the real Eric now?

Hudson: I’m guessing you don’t listen to the Wu-Tang Clan.
Jackie, if you can call Mo a “fruitbat”, then I’m going to call Youkilis “a lumberjack who enjoys the company of men.” Just letting you know. ;o)

“So what does that make Papi and Schill?”
Schill’s pretty fat himself, though at 40 I give him a little more slack…Papi has 2 inches on Chamberlain and their weights are listed at 230 each. I’m guessing they’re both probably a little heavier then that.
And I was kidding with the Fat Bastard reference. I thought that was clear? Anyway I didn’t want to start a debate, was just venting…

It’s the 9th inning – Gagne should be ok here. Should . . . but since he is wearing a Red Sox uniform now and I started my career as a Red Sox fan during the 1986 World Series (I grew up outside the country), there is no guarantee he doesn’t give up 5.

Tom: “Papi is not fat”????? he is the fattest person on either team with the possible exception of Britton.

Good inning from Gagne. Just think. He could have been doing that in the eighth inning Friday, and we’d be even less worried about the score.
Ninth-inning heroics, here we come! You know, with Varitek, Hinske, Coco and Lugo coming up. :-P

The bottom of the Sox order is just not at all intimidating. Other than Manny, are they missing anyone? They can’t have compiled the record they have with Varitek/Hinske/Crisp.

Ok this is a dumb argument, but I will bet you diamonds to donuts Papi hasn’t seen 230 since he was a Twin.

I’m telling you guys, you gotta think about narratives. Bottom of the order picking up the team in a come from behind win… the story writes itself… Tek redeeming himself, justice for the first game of the series, etc etc. It’s gotta happen!

Here we go, here we go, here we go…
BTW, is there anything in the world that is more uncomfortable than the rally cap? My temples are being gouged out over here.

Hudson, you’ve been missing out. Supreme Clientele? Fishscale? Plus 8 Diagrams, drops in 4 weeks. Can’t wait.

Walk! I agree, it writes itself. C’mon baseball gods – I’m sure they’d rather see an exciting game than a boring one like yesterday.

Holy crap, I’m in shock.
Someone ought to run for Tek, probably, but it won’t happen.
Anyway, if Big Papi is fat, I’d like the Sox to get some more fat players.

If we somehow get to Ortiz with the game on the line, I am going to puke in advance just to get it out of the way.

I really don’t get that pitch selection. You are up two, not saying you have to give in, but pitch to contact Mo.

Joe Morgan “yelling out” to one of the Fenway EMTs.
Joe Morgan understands the lexicon of youth culture.

“If we somehow get to Ortiz with the game on the line, I am going to puke in advance just to get it out of the way.”
That’d have to come in extras, unless Lugo, Ellsbury, and Pedroia reach base without taking the lead. Which would be tough.
Our bench is pathetic right now…

SFs: Not meant as a dig – when Youkilis is in and Manny is in, do you have any good bats off the bench?

“SFs: Not meant as a dig – when Youkilis is in and Manny is in, do you have any good bats off the bench?”
Wow. Lugo hits a double. On Ellsbury, again; if he singles here…man, I don’t even know what I’d do…

CRAP! Sterling botched the call so freaking badly – couldn’t remember who was running and so didn’t say anything while I sat wondering is he at 2nd or 3rd???
Big moment for Ellsbury.

>>>Youkilis is in and Manny is in, do you have any good bats off the bench?
Ellsbury. Since Drew will keep his job in the postseason even though he shouldn’t.

RHe hits Ellsbury! JERK! Well… its up to the other Rookie.
Oh god.. if Jacoby’s hurt, Im gonna cry. I’ve already thrown up.

Why can’t these games EVER end in normal fashion?
Why everytime the Sox start to put something together do the fans start chanting “Yankees Suck” …

Paul: Ortiz and S. King conjure up similar visions and emotions for me…
nothing is ever simple.

Ok.. I’m now ok wiht a loss here. We put up aq good enough battle.
Come on Pedroia.
0-2 on Pedroia. MAriano doesnt screw up here. He’s Mo.
Fouled back.. on a pitch to rip. That should been a tie game, but Dustin messed up.
Another foul.
Almost hit Pedroia. 3-2.
Please. God.
Oh.. oh.. god. I’m havign a heart attack.

Called strike.
Ortiz standing on deck.
Sick to stomach, commiserating with Dion…
Dustin takes time.
Ball inside. 3-2, bottom of the ninth, tying run on second, winning run on 1st, runners will go…
Oh jeez.
Big Papi to bat.
Holy effing shee.

Papi getting a chance to show how “Phat” he really is…
I can’t wait for this to be over, these games are way too stressful.

I still don’t think we pull this off.. but if we do, it’ll be one for the books.
Papi has to try to go into left. Just bloop it and beat the shift.

I saw that, Andrew.. couldn’t believe he fist-pumped for taking a close pitch on the inside corner. Hate that Gnat.

Ah well . . . still, I’m not unhappy – it was a good game. And it wasn’t as much a must win for the Sox as it was for the Yanks.

Way to make it interesting Mo. I never thought after the first couple series between these teams that the Yanks would come out ahead on the series-match-up record.
I so hope these teams meet in the ALCS. Such drama.

I couldn’t get too worried about the bottom of the ninth. Either it’s because the “MR. CLUTCH IS BACK” bullshit is so stupid, or because I completely spent my emotional well on Jeter’s homerun.
Anyway, good win. Stellar performances from Rocket, and almost a stellar performance from Schilling. Amazing outing from Joba, and hey, Jeter’s still the Mr. Clutch around these parts. :)

The Sox lost, but I think that ninth inning pretty much had an “Enjoy it while you can because we’ll see you in October” feel.
For some reason, I don’t feel bad about tbis loss at all. I dunno why.

>>>I keep trying to tell myself this is supposed to be fun.
Well said. And guess what, in all probability we all get to do this again in a seven game series in about a month.
Start stocking up on sedatives now.

Mientkeiwicz says he circled this game on his calendar when he got hurt and told Torre he really wanted to play in this one. And he came up huge.

And Joba’s ERA is no longer 0. That was getting irritating . . . (and yes, he’s fat! That’s not muscle like Papi! ;) )
Really not unhappy about this loss – this does feel like the Sox are just fine. And I *love* our rookies!

“couldn’t believe he fist-pumped for taking a close pitch on the inside corner. Hate that Gnat.”
Jeter fist pumps for catching a pop fly…
Would have been real nice to have someone less useless then Hinske in there somewhere…maybe a guy who knew how to take a pitch once it became clear Mo had no f*cking clue where anything was going. Ditto Crisp, really.

>>>Would have been real nice to have someone less useless then Hinske in there somewhere…maybe a guy who knew how to take a pitch once it became clear Mo had no f*cking clue where anything was going. Ditto Crisp, really.
True, but we couldn’t have asked for more than Big Papi batting with the bases loaded. Just didn’t work out as usual.

Neither fanbase should complain about fistpumps. Papelbon:Chamberlain. Beckett:Clemens. Pedroia:Jeter.
Yeah, the fact that they took a three-run deficit and got it to where it was… and in the playoffs, it’s Manny in the lineup and not Hinske. This series, if nothing else, has shown the Red Sox and Yankees will play a hell of an ALCS. (The last series didn’t really look so great).

“Mo had no f*cking clue where anything was going”
His control was off, but that’s bullshit. Perfectly placed cutter got ortiz.
Clownboy, what about that sweep you guaranteed? Clownboy, oh clownboy…

This is not a knock on SFs – I just feel like the Yankees have the (admittedly slight) edge if the ALCS comes up. They’ve done really well and come out ahead against all the top Sox starters except yesterday vs. Beckett and have won 7 of the last 9 games against them. I’m NOT saying they are SOO much better, but I feel like the Yankees’ bullpen, starting line-up, and certainly bench are all better. And the starting pitching (other than Beckett) is comparable, with Beckett being the one standout.
I’m sure SFs disagree…but hopefully we’ll all get to find out next month.

Season series is 10-8 Yanks. All the other numbers–runs for/against and the like–are basically even.
Sounded like a good game, even if I’m more then a little irritated at Boston’s managing only one f*cking unearned run against Roger and his shredded elbow.

“His control was off, but that’s bullshit. Perfectly placed cutter got ortiz.”
Umm…yeah, his control was off. And that was clear from the start. And Hinske swung at the first two pitches he saw. I didn’t say he couldn’t settle down, did I?

Paul: You forgot one…there is no ying for Schilling’s yang. He stands out as the guy we would all hate (and I do) if he were on the “other” team.

IH, I’ll give you the line-up and the bench, but I’ll keep our ‘pen and rotation, thank you very much.

You could argue Giambi has some history that makes him particularly detestable to everyone but the fans of his own team. But you’re right. The last year has really not endeared Schilling to me (or me to Schilling. Not sure which way that should go).

> Neither fanbase should complain about fistpumps
Okay, I’ll just complain about Pedroia regardless of where he puts his hands. It’s totally irrational, I know it, I’ve said it before. Hate him.

It is 10-8. Only 18 games this year instead of the usual 19, for whatever reason.
I so hope these teams meet in the ALCS. Such drama.
I’m not sure I agree. Though maybe a week of lost appetite and dry heaving wouldn’t be a bad thing (I’m just a seven game playoff series away from my goal weight…) Playing youse guys at any time makes me way too nervous, and completely non-functional in my day to day life. I managed to do negative work in 2003 and 2004.
I’m in agreement with the rest of you SFs… today’s loss wasn’t too terrible. Disappointing, but not devastating. I really thought we were going to pull it out in the end though. C’est la vie.

“more then a little irritated at Boston’s managing only one f*cking unearned run against Roger and his shredded elbow.”
Give me a break. Maybe the fact that he pitched his ass off had something to do with it?
Really hope we get to play you in the ALCS

Fair enough SF’s: it is great that we each think we have the upper hand. And we can each point to something to prove it – you have the best record and the division. We have the best record in the second half and the upperhand in the face-to-face, especially recently.
October will be great.

Clemens had it today. Will his ligaments have it after one or two more regular-season starts, and at least one start in the playoffs?
I reiterate: A Yanks-Sox ALCS will be great, exciting baseball. But I do not want to see great, exciting baseball and go crazy for a whole week. Give me Sox-Angels or Sox-Tribe or, even better, a Sox-Tigers ALDS, and I’ll be much happier (as will my wife, tangentially).

I couldn’t care less about this loss and I also don’t know why. I just don’t. Two teams went to battle, one team came out on top, it wasn’t my team. I’m ok with that.
I cooked and drank all day, so that helps.

> Sox-Tigers ALDS
That would make for a happy gerbil household and extended as well, except for gerbil that is.

“Really hope we get to play you in the ALCS”
I just hope the Yankees make it to the postseason, much less the ALCS.
I’ve had two dreams, in one of them, the Yankees get swept in three games by the Angels, and in the second dream the Yankees play Boston in the first round and lose in 4 games. In the fourth game, the Yankees are down 9-2…they battle back in the 9th inning to make it 9-8 (with help by a 3-run homerun by Damon), but then lose. So things aren’t looking good for the Yankees, in a pure premonition sense.

Also, I would have taken the Boston bullpen easily over the Yankees’, but Okajima has just been falling apart lately. And we all saw what happened to Papelbon. As a Yankee fan, I call it a push. Our pen still has too many unknown quantities (Edwar, Britton, Bruney, Henn, and now Ohlendorf… 1st half of the season Farnsworth?) for me to call a clear advantage.
Rotation… IPK has been hot, Hughes is taking his lumps as a rookie, Wang will definitely bounce back from yesterday’s shelling… push.

Uh, I don’t really care what you say, Roger Clemens isn’t Johan Santana. He doesn’t get the, “He’s just so good sometimes there’s nothing you can do,” treatment, at least not from me. He’s no Julian Tavarez, either, of course, but I reserve the right to complain about whatever I want…especially given the obvious playoff implications.
Andrews: Mo walked 2 people, gave up a line-shot double to Julio Lugo, and hit a guy. Overall, he had no clue where his pitches were going. How is this an argument? Fine, he made his pitches to Ortiz; good for him. Doesn’t make Hinske’s ab any more palatable, which was my main complaint…

“But I do not want to see great, exciting baseball and go crazy for a whole week. Give me Sox-Angels or Sox-Tribe or, even better, a Sox-Tigers ALDS, and I’ll be much happier”
Give me yanks-sox, two cases of wine and a padded, soundproof room. That’s all I ask…

I’m with you, Lockland. I guess it’s because I didn’t expect the Sox to get as close as they did — and, again, the eighth and ninth seemed to be a last salvo, the Sox saying: “See you next month, boys.” Given that exact same scenario in an ALCS game, I would put money on Ortiz driving home two runs.

That walk from Mo to that fist-pu I mean patient, composed Gnat ROY second baseman was on a fastball that was a very well-placed set for an inside corner fastball.

“Overall, he had no clue where his pitches were going.”
That’s just bullshit. He walked 2 guys after going to 3-2 on them. His control was not good, but he definitely knew where the ball was going.

I dunno, I think right now, the Yankees have the edge in the bullpen. Okajima is just shot, and you really cannot count on Gagne or Timlin. The rest of the respective ‘pens aren’t really worth mentioning, unless you count Buchholz as part of the bullpen. But it looks like the Sox don’t consider Buchholz as a setup guy.
The Yankees have Joba and Mo, the best tandem they’ve had since the Gordon days, maybe even better because I doubt Joba will be throwing up before playoff games. Right now, meaning as of this moment, the Yankees have the better ‘pen.

Josh, Mo got out the jam and won the game. Dassit.
Also, no one is comparing Johan Santana, Cy Young candidate, ace of the Twins rotation with old man, cortisoned elbow, back-of-the-rotation Roger Clemens. Where did you get that idea from? Did BOSTONRAW tell you that?

I can’t really bring myself to feel too bad about this game, the sox are still 4.5 up and should get manny back by the end of the week, if the Yankees had swept it would be full on panic, but all the sox really needed was one of three

Gagne (the version we’ve seen since he stopped tipping pitches) and Papelbon is better than Chamberlain and Rivera, at this point in their respective careers. The Sox have Buchholz, Timlin, Tavarez, Snyder in front of them. Sox have the edge in bullpens.
Beckett-Matsuzaka-Schilling remains slightly better than Wang-Pettitte-Clemens, at least based on recent performances — though closer than I would have guessed at the All-Star Break, that’s for sure.

“Given that exact same scenario in an ALCS game, I would put money on Ortiz driving home two runs.”
Interesting. Putting up a guy who is known for clutchness against the best reliever, no, pitcher in postseason history.
You could also put money on Mo shutting the door completely, not even getting to Ortiz.

Josh SF-
The same comment about the Soxs not scoring against Clemens, could be said at Shilling. In the first two innings the Yanks hit pretty hard and came away empty. Given that players fail 3 out of 10 times, even the best lineups can be shutdown on any given night.

“OK fine, apparently Mariano was as good as he’s ever been. I was wrong to even insinuate that he was struggling a bit.”
Big difference between “struggling a bit” and “”Overall, he had no clue where his pitches were going.”
BIG difference.

“You could also put money on Mo shutting the door completely, not even getting to Ortiz.”
That’s where my money goes, and I hope I get the chance make the bet.

“Gagne (the version we’ve seen since he stopped tipping pitches) and Papelbon is better than Chamberlain and Rivera”
You are actually serious about rather having Gagne than Chamberlain, just for right now? Based on a few 1-2-3 innings from Gagne where the game isn’t on the line?
That’s a little ridiculous.

“Interesting. Putting up a guy who is known for clutchness against the best reliever, no, pitcher in postseason history.”
Were you by chance in a coma for a few months a few years back? Because you make it sound like it’s never happened before.

Paul, Gagne was pretty sharp today in the top of the 9th, but that in no way erases his track record in close games this season from my mind.
Papelbon is young and Mo is old, but just take a look at how they performed in this series when the game was on the line. (although a 6-out is too much to ask for any closer.)
Has Buchholz made a relief appearance this season? I’m inclined to hold off any judgment on the guy.

Yeah, I can’t feel bad about this game. Sox locked up the division yesterday.
I call the bullpens a push right now. I can’t count on Okajima. And Gagne might as well be Farnsworth – you can’t pick and choose which games to include. The bottomline right now is that Joba to Mo for three innings is more intimidating than anything the Sox have got. But leading up to that, I give the Sox the edge, barely.
Beckett solidified his “best of the starters” title. But otherwise, I have to give Pettitte the edge over Dice-K based on their seasons. And Clemens-Schilling is a push as we saw tonight.
The ALCS would be fantastic.

Game scores of Gagne’s last 7 appearances:
1 to 3 (2 hits)
1 to 2 (a walk)
10 to 1 (a hit)
7 to 1 (a hit)
16 to 9 (gave up a run on two hits)
7 to 8 (a hit…this was after the Papelbon BS)
1 to 4 (finally, a perfect inning)
So Gagne has not appeared when the game was in any way on the line, and until tonight had not even had a 1-2-3 inning.
Please retract.

“Big difference between “struggling a bit” and “”Overall, he had no clue where his pitches were going.”
Guy, he walked two batters, hit someone, and gave up a double. Look at that line in a vacuum and tell me what you see. I really don’t care how close you think he was to the plate, either; he was wild, and Hinske had a sh*tty ab. That is all I meant. Sorry if my rhetoric was a touch too vehement…
And by sorry I mean I’m done arguing, because nit-picking over word choice pisses me off far more then this game did. Main point was that Mo was well off his game and Hinske/Coco had miserable ab’s; if you think I’m wrong, well…whatever.
And on another note…I don’t think both of our teams make it through the first round of the playoffs. No real reason why, and I’m not making any judgment about which one I expect to fail, I just don’t think it’ll happen.

Yah, yah
Blah, blah, blah, blah, Yanks are great, blah, blah, blah, blah, 4 1/2 games back, blah, blah, blah, Jeter, blah, blah, blah, wish we had those 14 games back, blah, blah, blah.
I just have one question: Why the FUCK is OJ on ESPN when I don’t know a single damn person who associates him with sports today?
Dumbass TV

“Were you by chance in a coma for a few months a few years back? Because you make it sound like it’s never happened before.”
Paul said that because it would be the postseason, Ortiz would have somehow magically performed better. I was saying how it goes both ways.

As for Buchholz, I honestly wonder if he’ll be used again this season. He’s right at his innings limit and of any game to use him, tonight was it. They might throw him here or there down the stretch and that will tell me if they’re planning on using him in October.
Anyone get news on Youk?

I thought they’d save Buchholz for a game where the starter goes out early and they need a long-man. Maybe if Wake gets hammered in Toronto tomorrow we’ll see him again.
Part of me does wonder what’ll happen if he pitches well out of the bullpen down the stretch but still reaches his innings limit. I mean can 10-15 more innings in the playoffs really hurt that much if you coddle him properly? (Ditto the Yankee kids, too) says Youk’s just very sore. I don’t think we’ll see him for a few days still.

“Guy, he walked two batters, hit someone, and gave up a double. Look at that line in a vacuum and tell me what you see. I really don’t care how close you think he was to the plate, either; he was wild”
Guy, then you need to say what you mean, not something that’s not true. I agree that Mo was off his game a bit, but look at the ab’s: both walks happened on 3-2 counts, Ellsbury got hit with a sharp breaking cutter he couldn’t get out of the way of, and the double wasn’t a bad pitch – he reached down and got it. Mo’s control was not what it usually is, but he certainly knew where his pitches were going – that’s not wild.

Hey, he was just exaggerating a bit (which I think he’s already said). It was an off-the-cuff remark. Of course Rivera wasn’t throwing inside but ending up outside. He was missing his spots for sure, but not by feet.

IMHO using Buck in a game where the starter gets bounced would be a terrible waste of his innings. He should be coming in in close and early situations, like Friday or tonight.
Honestly I would worry about 10-15 more innings for Buck, especially in October. High pressure situations is more likely to lead to over extending. Neither Hughes or Joba seem close to their innings limits – the former from being converted early and the latter from being hurt.
Thanks on Youk – I’m praying it’s not the hamate and the team is keeping it quiet.

Seems like you can pick when a pitcher has made a definite adjustment at a particular point in time, and has pitched dramatically better since then.
Chamberlain > Gagne
Papelbon > Rivera
Closer > Set-up
Thus: Gagne-Papelbon > Chamberlain-Rivera. Also, Buchholz, who was dominant in long relief in his last (admittedly only such) appearance, Tavarez, Snyder, Timlin, et al. I would say are better than the Yanks’ counterparts. There’s not really anyone beyond Chamberlain who’s intimidating to me. But then again, Timlin and Snyder probably aren’t that intimidating to the Yankees, either.
Basically, this series was what we’ll see in the playoffs, and it was Beckett and Matsuzaka beating Pettitte and Wang, with Clemens beating Schilling. With the exception of Beckett over Wang, the other games were very close, so it’s definitely a close call as to which top three overall is better. I’d still take Schilling over Clemens, particuarly after another month of starts, and I’d obviously take Beckett over Wang.
Yanks definitely have the edge in lineup and bench — which is funny because the Sox’ bench looked to be a great strength when the season opened. Just goes to show.
So the teams are very evenly matched. I would give the Sox the slight edge in pitching, the Yanks the edge in hitting. In other words: Exactly what the situation was in 2004.

the double wasn’t a bad pitch – he reached down and got it.
FWIW, Lugo hammered a letter-high fastball for the double. Not a good pitch.
Josh was clearly exaggerating in the heat of the moment. Why jump all over it? His point was valid: Hinske should not have been swinging at two straight pitches when everyone else was able to take Rivera deep into the count.

I can’t bellieve a supposed gang of sports affectionados does not care that OJ is now dominanting the ‘sports’ scene.
I need to go puke.

Last time I checked, O.J. Simpson is a Hall-of-Famer, thus making him of some importance in the sports world. I can’t belive you still come here since you obviously don’t like us so much.

“Exactly what the situation was in 2004.”
In 2004, you had two starters, Schilling, and Pedro, capable of dominating; and Wakefield, who more often than not, gave the yanks fits. Timlin and Embree were solid, and Foulke was dominant. We had Moose, Jon Lieber, Javier Vasquez and Kevin Brown. Quantrill was shot, and Gordon was wearing down.
Sorry, this is not exactly like 2004.

“Basically, this series was what we’ll see in the playoffs”
And the previous series was just a couple throw-away games, right? I’d say Beckett dominating the Yankees is the exception rather than the rule at this point, since he hadn’t had a good start against them since I don’t know when. Certainly not this year, even when he’d been dominant all year. Ditto with Matsuzaka holding the Yankee offense down, even over 5.2.
Meanwhile, Pettitte and Wang, before this series, had done excellently against the Red Sox all season long, struggle.
I think there’s a lot to show that this series was less indicative than the last series was. You can’t just throw away the sweep when contemplating a possible ALCS matchup.

“FWIW, Lugo hammered a letter-high fastball for the double. Not a good pitch”
Sorry, my bad, but it wasn’t letter high – according to the Fox graphic, it was a fastball well above the strike zone that Lugo got on top of.

I must amend, Wang was not exactly dominant against the Sox this season barring the 7-inning outing he had last time. But this start was clearly the worst start he had against the Sox this year, and barring the 8-run catastrophe, the worst start he had all year.

“Why jump all over it? His point was valid: Hinske should not have been swinging at two straight pitches when everyone else was able to take Rivera deep into the count.”
Why jump all over it? Because it was not only inaccurate, but somewhat insulting.
Hinske, a LH, swung at two straight cutters inside, a very hard pitch for lefties to lay off of. Two other guys took Rivera deep into the count, for sure, but as we all saw, it wasn’t like Rivera was missing by a lot. Seems to me he had at least one of the guys he walked down 1-2; he definitely wasn’t wild.
I’m sure you would just let a similar point about Paplebon go, if you thought it was BS, Paul. C’mon.

“[Rivera] certainly knew where his pitches were going”
Our bench isn’t as bad as it seems though. When Manny comes back, we’ll have either Coco or Ellsbury will be ready to steal a base a la Roberts, both Ellsbury and Kielty are capable of solid ABs, Hinske could be worse, and Cora is steady as they come in the field.
Cash/Belli aren’t exactly fear inducing at the plate, but then neither is Molina.

“Seems like you can pick when a pitcher has made a definite adjustment at a particular point in time, and has pitched dramatically better since then.”
I disagree mightily on this point. There is absolutely no way, objectively, to pick that “point” especially for relief pitchers. And the big difference for me in the bullpen is the Yankee duo goes three innings. To cover the same ground, the Sox have to either extend Paps or throw Oki. I don’t like either option.
Also, disagree on 2004. Pedro and Schilling presented a combo that made me believe even when we were down 0-3. This year it’s not close to being the same, both because Beckett isn’t as good as either and because the #2 is even further away.
Worse, the Yanks have better pitching than 2004, especially if they don’t throw Mussina in a Game 4.
The Yankees scare me. I think they have the better team (and they’ve played like it – the last two series and the second half). To me, that’s the similarity to 2004. Then I thought the Sox had the better team but wound up with the WC.

I’ll take “West” over out of the park, a la Okajima, anyday.
And, I’ll take a tough save over Paplebon’s implosion in this series anyday, too.

God, watching Paul go into rationalization mode after these series losses has to be the most satisfying thing about baseball to me these days. I know it’s base, and I’m not proud…but man, watching you squirm and try to put this weak spin on losing a series, both losses heart breakers, it’s like Christmas morning but better! “This game didn’t bother me, not sure why.” I love that one so, so, so much… And tell us again how the Sox plating a run was somehow sending a “see you in October” message. Classic! I think I’m addicted, Paul. It’s just such a pure type of satisfaction, watching a completely biased, cocky guy have to prove to a forum of strangers that he wasn’t bothered. Please, never ever stop!

Pettitte and Wang, before this series, had done excellently against the Red Sox all season long
You caught yourself with Wang, but he only has two quality starts in five starts against Boston this season. Pettitte does have three quality starts — but that’s over six games. So I don’t know that any starters have performed consistently excellently against either of our teams. Each side has beat up the oher side, and each side seems to be making adjustments from series to series. So it’s really too close to call — but I’ll still take Beckett and Schilling over Wang and Clemens come October. I won’t be looking forward to it, though.

“I’ll take “West” over out of the park, a la Okajima, anyday.”
That would be East, and I prefer West myself, at least when our guys are on the mound.

Pedro and Schilling presented a combo that made me believe even when we were down 0-3
Really, so you belived in Schilling, who it wasn’t clear he could even pitch again, after Game 3? I doubt that.
Also, Gagne struggles. Fixes problem, says he was tipping pitches, returns and gives up just one run in next 10 appearances. Why does that difference hold no meaning? Statistically, I agree, you shouldn’t arbitrarily pick and choose what games to use, but stats do not exist in a vacuum. Gagne has done nothing since changing his delivery to show that he’s anything but the pitcher the Sox believed they acquired.
Now, there is a good point to be made about the type of situations Gagne has appeared in (I forget who made it up there). Hopefully, we’ll learn more on that in the next 10 games.
Also, the Yankees used Chamberlain and Rivera for three innings, true. But now they can’t use Chamberlain for two games. Unless they revise the rules in the high-stress playoff situations, they could lose the war in their effort to win the battle if they push Chamberlain to two or three innings. It seems you need your ace relievers to go every day, if need be, in the playoffs.

The other problem with the pitching matchups is the Yankees may juggle things to give Wang starts at the Stadium.
Yeah, I did feel good about 2004. I’m not saying I thought they’d come back, but the thought did occur to me that it was possible – during Game 4.
And if you’re going to call Gagne “fixed”, YF’s can legitimately claim the same of Farnsworth.
Off days make the Joba-Mo combo available for the majority of games. And I expect the two days rule will be relaxed.
I would have loved to see Buck got 1 innings stints. But because they aren’t giving him them, I don’t see him available for October. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Friday, October 12, 2007 ALCS Game #1 TBD
Saturday, October 13, 2007 ALCS Game #2 TBD
Monday, October 15, 2007 ALCS Game #3 TBD
Tuesday, October 16, 2007 ALCS Game #4 TBD
Thursday, October 18, 2007 ALCS Game #5 TBD (*If Necessary)
Saturday, October 20, 2007 ALCS Game #6 TBD (*If Necessary)
Sunday, October 21, 2007 ALCS Game #7 TBD (*If Necessary)
Three days off.

I do wonder what the plans are for Buck. I expect he’ll start Wednesday in place of Matsuzaka, but after that, it seems they have to use him in October. But maybe not.
YF’s can legitimately claim the same of Farnsworth.
Maybe they can. Has he done work in side sessions and made a noticeable change to his delivery to fix a distinct problem that was causing his problems? I don’t know because I don’t follow them as closely, but if his better performance can be traced to a concrete change, it’s not illegitimate to use that change as a starting point.

So if it’s Sox-Yanks and Chamberlain comes in relief of Wang and pitches three innings, he’s out the next two games.
I expect they’d relax the rules, too, but I’d be curious how Torre manages the pen knowing that if he uses Chamberlain tonight, he can’t use him tomorrow night. But what if the Yankees wind up needing him more tomorrow night?
And what if the games go extras like Games 4-5 did in 2004? Does Chamberlain sit while Torre burns down the pen? A lot of questions that I’m glad the Sox don’t have to answer, but that I could see becoming problems in a long, tightly played series.

You’d think if Buck was going to contribute in the post-season, they’d be prepping him now, no? What’s the point of using him as a long man? If they used him as a sixth or seventh inning guy, that easily gives them the edge.
The reliever turning the corner logic I just have a hard time buying. The samples are too small. And if Gagne gags one more time, what’s that say? The results are just too tenuous to conclude anything for my taste.

They won’t pitch Chamberlain three innings. I think it’s more the number of pitches. I could see them breaking the rules to allow one inning each in back-to-back nights or three innings in two nights. But then I’d expect them to try it in the next two weeks. If not, maybe they go one night on, one night off regardless of the number of pitches?
But yeah, I think Torre’s bullpen management is worrisome for them. It will certainly be a storyline to follow.

Yeah, not using him in 10 days doesn’t bode well. I’d rather him in that 6th/7th role with Gagne in the eighth and Paps closing. But I imagine they’d want to avoid such a high-stress scenario on his arm.
Still, it is just a month, and isn’t it all about winning the ring?

Right, exactly. But I can see where they’re coming from. An arm injury to him would be devastating.
It could be that they’re giving him a few weeks off then will try him for a few one-inning stints the last week. He was at 119 innings last year and sits at 143 this year. I’ve seen that recommendations are no more than a 20% increase year to year. But that puts him right at the limit. So either he’s finished or they’re saving 8 to 10 more innings. That would be perfect for 11 October wins. :) Soon enough…

Whoa. Over 800 posts on this thread alone.
Can’t wait to see how many there are when the Red Sox meet the Yankees again … in the ALCS.

Paul (SF) writes: “Papelbon > Rivera”
Please explain how you’ve judged this. I believe Rivera’s career save-conversion percentatge vs. Boston (the worst of any team he has faced, probably because he has faced them more than anyone) are around 75%.
Papelbon, with the benefit of fewer appearance against the Yankees batters, has faced NY a total of 15 times I believe. Off the top of my head I remember 3 blown saves (two Jeter hits in the only two games where Papelbon came in in the eighth, last August and last night) and the A-Rod 9th inning HR this year. I don’t recall any others, but that works out to, at best, an 80% save rate for Papelbon and not nearly the track record/experience in high-pressure situations including the post-season. I will take Mariano over Papelbon any day if you are looking at matchups. If you are looking at long-term prospects, of course JP is the better choice since he is so much younger, but that’s not the point of gauging relative strength this year and for this October.
And based on current performance, there is no bullpen presence for the Sox that comes close to Joba or even all that close to Vizcaino the way he has pitched since June.

Lar: Fair enough. Larger point I was trying to make is simply who has the edge. At worst (from a YF perspective) I’d say it’s a push. I think it is a stretch to give JP the edge over Mariano. I assume SFs disagree.

Paul: Farnsworth, now that he’s getting more off days, has been pitching… pretty freaking good. I’m not gonna lie. He’s throwing shutout innings all over the place.

IH, Schilling gave up the homer last night, not Papelbon.
I’m just saying that I think Papelbon is the surer bet than Rivera at this stage in their respective careers. Feel free to disagree, as I’m sure we’re each predisposed to the players we’ve seen come through for us time and again.
In 15 games (16 innings, no starts, 12 games finished) against NY, Papelbon is 0-2 with a 2.25 ERA and four saves. Three of those saves came this year, with one blown save (3.86 ERA in seven games). So he has four saves, two blown in two years with Boston against New York.
In 83 games (90.2 innings, no starts, 71 games finished) against BOS, Rivera is 10-6 with 40 saves. This year, though, he has a 6.75 ERA against Boston in nine games. Still has five saves though to the one blown save and the 0-1 record.

Paul: Of course Schilling gave up the HR. I really must reduce my Monday morning crack-intake. Thanks for the correction…

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